The Sugar Show
If you’re building a business as a cosmetologist, esthetician, or wax professional, chances are you LOVE helping people feel beautiful in their own skin. But at the same time, you find yourself lying awake at night worrying where your next client will come from, wondering if you’ll be able to make rent this month, and wishing building a business didn’t feel so gosh-darn hard.Lucky for you, you’re in the right place.Your host and body sugaring expert Shannon O’Brien has taken her own skincare business from zero to multiple six figures simply by adding sugar to her treatment menu, and has helped over 3000 students learn to do the same.As a licensed esthetician, award-winning spa owner, national speaker, and spa consultant, Shannon is here to simplify the process and connect you with the right resources and education to build a profitable, self-sustaining skincare business so you can provide better services for your clients, make more money in your business, and enjoy greater balance between your work and home life.Join us each week and get your hands on the cutting-edge education you need to turn your skincare business into a smooth operation in no time!
The Sugar Show
Balls, Backs & Body Parts: Smooth Talk with the SugarMama & Sugar Daddy NYC
What happens when the Sugar Mama meets the Sugar Daddy? A frank, educational, and surprisingly hilarious conversation about the specialized world of male body sugaring! Shannon welcomes Armando Gualtieri, founder of The Sugar Daddy - New York's premier sugaring studio exclusively for male anatomy - to share insights from his thriving practice.
Armando's journey from massage therapist and theater artist to sugaring specialist began with his own painful waxing experience (colorfully described as feeling like "someone had punched me in the butthole"). After discovering the magic of sugaring, he built a thriving business with an all-male staff focused on professional, expert care for clients with male anatomy, regardless of gender identity. His approach fills a crucial gap in the beauty industry, creating a safe space where transgender, non-binary, straight, and gay men all receive specialized care without judgment.
The conversation delves into professional considerations unique to male sugaring - from handling spontaneous physical responses to understanding the wide variations in service requests. They discuss how male clients tend to be exceptionally loyal, following instructions meticulously and maintaining regular appointments, though they often need simplified home care routines. Armando shares his expansion plans beyond sugaring into facials, body treatments, and hair growth services, recognizing opportunities to introduce men to skincare they might not otherwise seek.
For practitioners interested in male sugaring, this episode provides invaluable insights from two industry leaders. Shannon and Armando are developing specialized training through Love to Sugar, promising to elevate standards across the industry. Whether you're a sugaring professional looking to expand your services or simply curious about this specialized practice, you'll appreciate their candid, professional approach to a topic rarely discussed so openly.
If you’ve connected with or been inspired by this episode in any way, leave us a review and let us know your biggest takeaway - I’d love to hear how you embrace Sugaring For All!! And while you've got your phone out, make sure to follow us on Instagram @Love2Sugar.
If you are interested in learning more about Radeq Lab's Premium Prebiotic Sugar Line of products, you can find them at www.radeqlab.us.
If you are interested in our business planner you can find the SugarBoss Planner here --->https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/love2sugar
The link to our Monthly SugarBiz Blueprint: https://www.love2sugar.com/offers/cMhp76LA/checkout
Cheers to your Sweet Success!
Welcome back to this episode of the Sugar Show. I am Shannon, your sugar mama, and today we are talking to the sugar daddy. It's so fun because when I first heard about him I thought, ooh, I'm loving the name Cause you know, for obvious reasons, I'm the sugar mama, but also I love what he does, and he has created a space in New York, right there downtown, and he is sugaring all men and he has an all men staff and they sugar male anatomy parts. So anyone, no matter how you identify, if you have the parts that you were born with as a male, that is who what Armando does and his team, and they are I say this over and over again, as you'll hear in this episode um, that I adore his staff because they are some of the coolest humans ever. Um, but they really are professionals and really good at what they do with their craft.
Speaker 1:Um, I will tell you that if you are prepared to listen to this episode and you are not someone who can talk about slang for body parts, um, we are very professional when we talk about it in the episode, but if that, if you are listening to this and you have small children around, you might want to pop your headphones in only because we do talk about parts Um and we do make some fun jokes, but it's all clean and professional.
Speaker 1:But it might not be appropriate for small kids that are hanging out and to this one, but it is just chock full of information for you. And Armando is the ultimate professional and it is an honor to have him on our education team. So my most favorite part of this episode is just how real he is and how we just get talking about how to handle things in the treatment room as it relates to the male anatomy. So, ladies and gentlemen, my episode with Armando Gualtieri Enjoy. I told you that you were going to have such a great experience today and here he is, my favorite sugar daddy in the whole wide planet. It's Armando Gualtieri, the sugar daddy.
Speaker 2:Hi, I love that you pronounced my last name correctly.
Speaker 1:Well, I've practiced and practiced. That's good. I'm very mindful. I'm very mindful and practiced.
Speaker 1:That's good, I'm very mindful. I'm very mindful, so we're going to get right into it, because so many people have been hearing about you and I just want them to get to know you, like I know you and we got a chance to spend quite a bit of time together in New York at the show, and now we're educating together and I want them to get to know you and your journey and how you can be of assistance as it relates to sugaring men specifically. So let's start all the way in the beginning with the Armando story, not even Sugar.
Speaker 1:Daddy. Yet what's the Armando backstory before the?
Speaker 2:Sugar Daddy. Yeah, there's a a lot of backstory there. Let me see if I can condense it. I think we all have a lot of backstory right, you're 29.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:there's not much you can live a whole life to 29. Um, I, um. I started out in the industry, um, by as a massage therapist in the spa industry, as a massage therapist in the spa industry, as a massage therapist, and I was doing that as a way to support myself while I was pursuing theater. So I was an artist, I'm a writer and an actor and a singer and a lyricist and a director, and I was doing all of that and an actor and a singer and a lyricist and a director, and I was doing all of that. That's what my dream was.
Speaker 2:But while I was dancing, I used to massage a lot of my friends and when I got out of college I thought, hmm, I'm a terrible waiter and I don't want to be in an office all day and I wanted to be in charge of myself.
Speaker 2:So I went to massage school and I've been a licensed massage therapist for 30 years. And while I was pursuing that and pursuing my theater career, at the same time I was starting to get disillusioned with the theater and starting to try and find something else that interested me. And skincare always interested me as an adjunct, because I was working in spas and health clubs that had spas and learning about skincare and I was so fascinated by it and I came to sugaring specifically because about 17 years ago I used to shave my body different parts right, we're talking about specifically my boy parts and when I got waxed the first time at a spa, I was like this is not for me and it was painful. I felt like somebody had punched me in the butthole. That was that's the first time I've heard that, so we can use that as one of our 10 reasons why.
Speaker 2:Won't feel like someone punched you in the butthole. It was like falling on your butt really hard and that feeling like oh, like you'd gotten kicked in the gut and I thought, oh, I'll never do this again. And then a roommate of mine had gone to get sugared and I went to get sugared and I was like this is magic, like sure it was uncomfortable, but afterwards my joke now with my clients is you'll be lying in front of you. A lot of, a lot of gay men watch real, real housewives I don't, but a lot of gay men watch real housewives. So you'll have your hand down your pants during real housewives just touching your balls, being like these feel so good just just because if the results are so good, yeah, so I had these results with sugaring 17 years ago and I got to know my sugars really well and eventually I was like I'm going to learn this, I want to start doing this. And that brought me sort of back around to skincare stuff too, because I wanted to learn sugaring and also be able to do the skincare specifically related to sugaring, because you and I talk about this all the time.
Speaker 2:What is your home care routine? How do you keep your back and your, all your bits your skin happy after your treatment. Um. So, anyway, I wound up coming all the way back around, or coming to sugaring, um, and I went to work for this person who was my sugarist, and that was. That was a short time. I got trained, went to work for him less than a year and then we had a pandemic.
Speaker 1:A little pandemic. A little pandemic.
Speaker 2:As the as the Gen Zs used to say, the pandemic. And I don't want to make light of it, but you know, sometimes you have to laugh in the story as the as the gen z's used to say, the pandemic. Um, and I don't want to make light of it, but you know, sometimes you have to laugh in the face of how terrible it was. Yeah, but we were all locked down at home and I had already started seeing clients, had already started seeing clients at the spa and on my own, and um, then I just kept it up with social media and once we were able to go back to work, I took a space, I started people again and by the end of my first year doing it, I was turning people away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it was just me, yeah, and then I realized I needed to hire somebody and that this was a viable business. Yeah, and the name of the business, the Sugar sugar daddy, just kind of came natural to me. I mean, I'm in my daddy era as a as a man.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:And so you know, it just seems.
Speaker 1:And you take care of everyone.
Speaker 2:And I take I try to take care of everyone. I do yeah you do.
Speaker 1:Now let's be very clear that while you do sugar gay men, you sugar straight men as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Because men are men, men are men. Men have hearts that need help.
Speaker 2:Correct and not just genitals, but backs and chests and all of that and nose hair and you know, and that's very different from sugaring women because, you know, women sure have hair on their legs. But for instance, I have a straight client who comes in who has more hair than I have ever seen on a human being, from the waist down.
Speaker 1:He looks like Mr Did you see his?
Speaker 2:skin. No, he looks like Mr Tumnus from the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. He looks like a fawn. He's just from the waist down he's just fur. He looks like he's wearing fur pants and he's a great guy. And he comes in. He said for hygiene. He's like I just do my crack because you know it's easier to keep clean. And I've been convincing them, though I said listen, at some point you're going to want to do the front with me, because you're never going to go back if you do it. Yeah, little by little he's creeping closer to it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because he trims, and he trims there in the front, and so I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:You know, I do want to talk about parts for just a second with you, because you and I talked about this last week on, because we're creating, by the way, to let the audience know, we're creating this very cool class together.
Speaker 2:Extra, extra, yeah, hello together extra, extra, yeah.
Speaker 1:But what I do want to make sure that people understand is there are many different ways that you can sugar men, women. It's like Brazilian bikini you know which. Which level do you want? Your? You know your landing strip right, yeah, why do you? Want it. Is it a martini glass taco chip? You know, a landing strip? What do you want? Sure?
Speaker 2:with Is it?
Speaker 1:a martini glass, taco chip, you know? A landing strip? What do you want? Sure, with men, if you think about it, there are plenty of men who just want their crack, just want the crack of the tank, just want their balls, just don't want their legs, they want their butt cheeks done. There's different. You know areas that men need and they don't. For example, in the class we talk about, they don't get their legs sugared, some of them, and so they don't want it to look like they're wearing bare skin briefs, you know you've got to feather it in.
Speaker 2:It's got to look blended.
Speaker 1:There's blending involved without just, you know, sugar. There's a straight line and a lot of men I think there's a lot of sugarists that don't realize that if a man wants a Brazilian, that means a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:It means a lot of different things, to a lot of different men and to a lot of different spas and salons who do men.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:There aren't a lot of them, but yeah, I mean some of them.
Speaker 1:They don't want the entire top done, that's right. They just want the shaft, the balls, the taint, the boot the crack, leave the top.
Speaker 2:My biggest, probably the best seller on our service menu, is what we call the crack and sack and that means penis shaft, scrotum, taint and right around the anus or you know, right up the crack, and that's going to vary wildly from human to human because of the differences in the anatomy and hair growth and everything. But sometimes, and you want to do that so it looks natural. So some people will ask for something very specific and you know that's just customer service. You can do what they want. But I have a way of doing it that looks natural and if somebody wants an adjustment from there, we can.
Speaker 2:But that's to your point about there are different ways to sugar different people. With women there's a certain amount of variation, but with men the amount of hair is wildly different. I mean, the anatomy is going to be different for men and women too, right, from woman to woman, from man to man, it's going to be different. But what's the style, what is the, what do we want it to look like? And then learning to adjust to that customer, to that client.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just going to talk about it because there are going to be some people that want to know about the trans population and how you handle that in your shop.
Speaker 2:Um, my shop is, uh, open to everyone, but we do specifically target men. We're all male estheticians, by the way. Yes, that's right, oh my love.
Speaker 1:If you're ever in new york and you're a guy, please go to sugar daddy's, because your staff, I I fell in love with all of them in new york, yeah you did all of them. And if I was a dude, I'd be like I have legs in the air for you, like I just adore you.
Speaker 2:So and I adore you guys. Jay and James both said to tell you hi, hi, mr James and Jay. Yeah, which sounds like it should be a 70s sitcom, mr James and Jay. The trans community there's so many gender variations now. Right, there's so many ways of talking about gender that I almost feel awkward saying we cater to men, but that's the quickest way I can get to the idea of what we do. So we cater to anyone born with a penis, right? Somebody that has a penis that identifies as female or non-binary, come on in. We work on trans men as well. We don't have as big a community of trans men coming to see us.
Speaker 2:But I think the problem for the trans community in general, and even for the non-binary community a little as well, is that there's a lot of talk in the news and in the social circles about the genitals of a trans person, right, there's always this curiosity Did a person assigned female at birth have top surgery?
Speaker 2:Have they had bottom surgery? Right, that's the thing top or bottom surgery. And a trans woman, somebody who was assigned male at birth, do they still have a penis? And obviously we need to know that as a business, right, because we need to know what we're working on, but there's an inordinate focus on it, a sort of prurient curiosity that comes from outside. But we're a place where you can feel comfortable being whoever you are, and that's really vitally important. That's why we do also welcome straight men, because straight men who come into our space know that they're going to get expert care for their bodies and a trans person or a non-binary person, I hope they know also that they're going to get sensitive care, that we are just here to do the work. Yeah, being as straightforward and professional as possible with everybody is what you can identify however you like.
Speaker 1:Correct you just you have a penis and balls and you know you need them done. You need them smooth, right we?
Speaker 2:got you to bring it in.
Speaker 1:You know like bring all your parts, yeah, and you know that's really important to say as well, because um female parts in this conversation, you're you're not as savvy on how to do that as I am right, it's true, and I'm not afraid to admit that too, because I'm much better with you know, assigned male at birth, male parts we're talking about, about sex, uh, identification, right, male or female about body parts?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, we're, that's our expertise, and so we often tell um cis women who call or inquire we don't. You know, we don't service you, not because you're not welcome, but because there are other people who are going to be more expert at this for you yeah we also intricacies, intricacies. There are intricacies.
Speaker 1:Yes, that intricacies I need my afternoon coffee. Yeah, there are. They're just. You know, they're just little details that you're not used to doing all the time, and we aren't either.
Speaker 2:If we're not doing a lot of both, yeah sure and there are so many places, so many places in new york city where a cis woman uh, right, like a woman can go and get her cis woman, specifically, can go and get her parts done. A trans person, a trans woman, who may or may not have her penis, is going to have a harder time walking into a place looking extremely feminine, looking like a woman, being a woman, going into a space and then explaining oh, by the way, because it can be uncomfortable for them, right, to be like ugh. But I'll tell you that again, we are just about making sure we're being professional all the time, right, great, bring your parts in, we're good, you don't have to explain anything, you're just who you are. And I think that's when we start talking about safe spaces. A lot in the social justice world there's a talk about safe spaces For women. Going to a spa where they're welcome is a safe space. For a man, going to that same spa where they're welcome is a safe space for a man? Going to that same spa where they're told we only do men's backs or arms or shoulders or tests, it's like, oh, suddenly I'm not welcome here, right, I'm not fully, you're not fully seeing me, right, sure, sure so you had talked about the, uh, the sign in the spa oh, good lord yeah
Speaker 2:someone, one of my clients, told me they went into a spa and they saw a sign and the sign said something like I'm paraphrasing probably very badly, if you get an erection, we will end the service. And I thought well, that's ludicrous, because any man will tell you that sometimes it just happens for no reason. And, more importantly, if you're on the table and somebody's touching you, you're probably going to your body's going to respond somehow and you can't control that. Like, sometimes, the more you think, don't think about elephants, what do you think about?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, yeah, so, let's talk about that, let's talk about that and we're going to talk about that in depth in the class. Let's talk about that in general, on how, what you do. If someone does, I know how I am I'd love to hear your side. What? You do if someone does, and is there any way to kind of not prevent it but maybe not encourage? You know like, is there ways that you think about?
Speaker 1:baseball Like you know how can, how can we do that? Because it's it's a very interesting topic that not a lot of people talk about. There's no other podcast that does sugar, but you know that we're not really talking about on, and I would love to hear your perspective.
Speaker 2:I think there should be a frankness about it too, which is why this is great for this we're talking here on the podcast. Well, first of all, I'll make a joke, because a lot of times people will call up and it'll be their first time and they're very nervous and have a lot of questions, and I like to be the front face of the business and talk to these people directly when they're new and have questions. Somebody will say what happens if I get an erection? And I said great, it works, that's what you want. If you get an erection when somebody is touching you, then your body's responding the way it's supposed to.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to.
Speaker 2:Great, as long as we don't go beyond that, and you know what these boundaries are. Yes, I'm not helping you with it, Correct, I'm not even going to and I'm going to probably stop manipulating it, because when you're sugaring, you're touching a lot and you try to get the customer client to help as much as possible. But if you get a boner, I'm going to ask you to move it, you know, because I'm not going to encourage that, the sensations of having somebody else touching you. And you know the creams and potions. If we get to that at the end I say lotions and potions, the soothing stuff that we put on at the end. Right, you know you can't be rubbing cream on somebody's erection. So you give it to them and you say, here, put this on your balls, put this on your taint, and you know, be on your way.
Speaker 1:It'll feel great and you can do it for you. Yeah, what?
Speaker 2:it'll feel really great, but you're gonna do that yeah and I'm sure they're very, very glad that you just let them handle it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think people do get embarrassed, you know people do get ashamed. Um, you know, there's there's going to be that odd client that maybe is trying to be inappropriate, and then you have to deal with that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you deal with?
Speaker 2:that I try to deflect. I try to. I may make a joke about something and skirt around it, most times by moving onto something professional. The energy will change. If it doesn't change and somebody is really pushing the issue, I'll say I'm at the office, this is my business. Yeah, and I'll be pretty frank about it. Yeah, and people get it. You know you don't have to do too much. I think it's best to just be straightforward about people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I usually tell my students and fellow estheticians I'm like listen, it's how you present yourself at the table Number one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, it is how you, what you're talking about while you're sugaring them, which is things that you know. We just talk about the world and whatever. We're not focusing on their parts with them, on this like journey of me touching you. Right, yeah, and it's really about taking charge of your professional service. That's right. You know, I'll tell you, um, I was, um, my, I was dating someone and I was like are you okay that I sugar men? You know, that's kind of a thing if you're dating a man that you're also touching other men With naked men all day, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and for you. You know you're with naked men all day. You have a boyfriend, you're like, you know you're all right with this Kind of what I do. And his comment was well, you're professional, that's what you do for a living, like someone who is in the medical field. Yeah, I wouldn't feel any differently, right, so that's how you carry yourself in the treatment room is very similar to being in the medical field. If I have to do something with your parts, put in a catheter, uh, shape you because you're going into surgery, whatever, whatever it is, you're a professional. A nurse is a professional. Doctors are personal.
Speaker 1:Sorry, yeah yeah, so it's how you present it, and I love the fact that you're like, hey, you know, this isn't what we do here. Yeah, so just stop asking.
Speaker 2:Done and if anything right, and there's a funny thing. You've brought up two things that hope I remember. I want to talk about each of them. One of them, what you said, reminded me of what do I do in the treatment room when something might be getting uncomfortable, and I find that the topic of conversation, what the topic of conversation is right. There's always going to be lulls in the conversation, except except with you and me. We never stop talking, but there might be a lull and during that pause maybe somebody's mind is going somewhere else and if I see something starting to stir, I will start the topic something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to get them in the room present with me talking, so that it's off of that. The other thing is being professional and presenting your best professional face all the time. That's related to something we also talked about at one point, about dealing with people who have had trauma in their past and people that come in even on a much lighter scale, people that are uncomfortable getting naked. Yeah, I'm very comfortable taking my clothes off in front of a group of people. I've been a model for you know, I've been an artist model.
Speaker 1:I've been sugared as a demo model. Also, you're smoking hot, so there's that.
Speaker 2:Go on, go on, oh, please, no, really Go on Keep going. I love you. You're so silly. Now you're blushing. I love it. It's fabulous. I am blushing. You can see it right Because the sun's shining right on me. Yes, no-transcript about how it goes where I touch you, what happens with the sugar, what it feels like. You know all of these things. And then I say I'm going to need you to take everything off. They've already signed a consent form, so they know they're going to have to. Just they've signed up for this.
Speaker 2:They know they're going to have to disrobe at some point yeah, do I leave the yeah, I leave the room, I come back and you know, sometimes you use a little modesty towel, um, but when you come in, if you're working on their, on their junk, you know, on their penis and ball and scrotum, trying to use the correct terms, then you, you have to move the towel. You know they have to be exposed, but they're comfortable, because you're comfortable and because it's so professional.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I am going to put a little caveat in there, because there are lots of women listening to this, because we're a field of mostly women and I will say for those of you that are listening that are female, that if you do sugar men and if at any point in time you have tried to be as professional as possible and you don't feel safe in my space and I hope in your space you can say the service is over, you're being inappropriate, I'm going to step out and get your clothes on and we're just going to finish here. You do not have to apologize if someone is being inappropriate. So I do want to make sure that you understand audience, that we're very at my shop and I'm sure even at yours, because it happens with men gay men, or even straight men.
Speaker 1:It happens that people do get inappropriate and even if you try to be as professional as possible, if someone makes you feel uncomfortable, you have every right as a professional to say service is over. Yeah, give them some warning. Right, be professional and say this is not what I do here. Right, you know, I'm going to just let you know that this is a professional service and I am not going to do what you're asking me to. And if you say it again or make me feel uncomfortable, this is going to be over. You have to let them know. Yeah, give them a warning.
Speaker 2:Let them know that you're, you're, keyed in now. Yes, right, like yes.
Speaker 1:And you have every right as a professional to say to someone when it's over, they're paying their bill and you say you know what? I think it's best that you find someone else that can that is more suited to sugar you than myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like, or you even do that after they've left. If there's some sort of an odd feeling about someone, you can say you know what? I would really prefer if you found someone else for your sugaring needs. It was very nice to meet you. I just don't think we're a fit. That is okay, because you might have trauma too.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's 100%.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So I just wanted to throw that in there, because I know that you and I have big personalities. I mean, I'm my table's right here and literally like listen, dude, you know this, this ain't happening, Like you know, and I can say that in a way that you and I will approach it differently, because both of us are kind of, we have our own trauma, but it's it's.
Speaker 2:you know that is not one of the things that I have an issue with, but I think it's so important that you said that, because the industry is so email dominant and you know there's a historical problem going back centuries of men and women alone together, like it's, and learning to speak for yourself when it's uncomfortable. It's hard for me to, you know, to say the thing you need to say. So I think it's doubly hard for women in a situation where there's a power imbalance and, um, weirdly, being naked on a table with somebody else who's clothed can be very powerful for the person who is naked. Really, yeah, because you feel like there's this. I don't know if I can explain it, but I think you know that power dynamic goes both ways. I think.
Speaker 2:And that's why a man who's naked on a table with a female technician may have this weird boldness because naked.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I never thought of that. I don't think they have boldness with me, cause I know I'm pretty. No, I see.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm not going to say what I was going to say, You'll be fine, I have had.
Speaker 1:I have had in. In fairness, I have had a few. You know that do get an erection and I'm like, and what I do. On that side note, I'm a little different. I will take a small just hand towel, modesty towel, right? Yeah, I'll say buddy, no problem, like you said it works. I will take the towel and put it over their erection and say hold this, because then it's not that they're holding the shaft, they're holding a towel and pressing themselves to the side. And then I can keep working.
Speaker 2:Yes, I should have. I should have said that when I was saying that I asked them to move their parts. Adding that towel adds that level of privacy. Sure, sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is fine, you know, and that's good for us to tell people, because I'm sure people are listening in the audience going well, I use a towel, is that not right? Totally right, it's totally fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can do whatever you want to do. If you can do the work, it doesn't matter how you do it, right, I mean?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, Um, but that's the thing is to understand that. You know, these are all body parts that need to be smoothed. There's ears, there's, you know, chests, there's backs, and so let's talk about that, because sugaring men isn't all about the Brazilians.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not the only thing that's different that I had to do a full body the other day and it's grueling work on a man because this guy was hairy and I have a client who comes in and's who there's no boundary between the hair on his chest and hair on his back. It's like somebody wrapped a bolt of fabric around his torso.
Speaker 2:And so I had to like carve out the smooth back. And it's up to him to go home and trim and blend. But that's a thing you have to contend with is the density of the growth and the strength of the hair. And you know chests are hard to do. Men break out. You do chest, you do their back or their butt, they're going to be liable to break out.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily everyone, and probably probably 50% of people, their first time will have a breakout if they don't follow the appropriate post treatment protocols which we will be sharing in the class, in the class Correct Intent.
Speaker 1:So talk a little bit about backs and men and how do you price it? Not the specific pricing, but how do you price it, because a guy that comes in, I mean men's backs vary. I mean both my boys, my grown boys. One is like a gorilla, the other one just has shoulders and a little tuft around his waistline, like that's it.
Speaker 1:Same biological cocktail, two different backs. So talk about how you price that with men. If a guy comes in and he has know, I don't know, some hair on his legs, or you know, like you said, the guy who looks like a fawn, you know like, yeah, how do you price?
Speaker 2:that in your shop.
Speaker 2:Um, we have, and we're currently in the midst of making a little change, because this is this push and pull in the industry about whether you're charging for time or part.
Speaker 2:Right, because I've gone to places where they charge by parts and, like my back is really easy to do. You can't charge me the same way you charge somebody else for a full back, but we have an estimated amount of time for each part and each combination of parts, and so our pricing menu reflects that, and if we think someone else needs more time some individual needs more time we'll talk to them about it in the service. We also make it clear on the website and on the booking flow that these times are approximate and we may need to add more time when you come in. So if you call, if somebody has a question, they'll call us or text us and we'll tell them this is what's going on. This is how this works. Call us or text us and we'll tell them this is what's going on. This is how this works, um, and we price it according to the amount of time we think we'll need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just had a vision of someone taking his shirt off and you're like yeah, 70 books, 15 minutes, and they're like I want to do my full body, you know yeah, no, and my old spot. They did it in 30 minutes, no girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, and that's something to know that you know, some people have a lot of hair and some people have hair that comes like a dream.
Speaker 2:You can have a lot of hair and it just comes out.
Speaker 1:You can have a little bit of hair and it takes forever to get it out, like it's not even about the volume of hair, it's about the density and the biology of the hair. You know, yeah, do you do maintenance prices like first time and maintenance prices?
Speaker 2:You know, you've given me an idea. No, oh, honey buns. And we should, because first time pricing is yeah, some of these people, first time. It takes extra time.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're going to go back to the shop and do that because, let me tell you, when you do that first time, like it's, you know sweat and tears and art and love and you know, and then, but it forces them to come back in four weeks because if they do, they get the maintenance price. That's right. I also have a middle of the road. So for Brazilians, I do four weeks and then five plus. So if you're someone who had a four week appointment and then you've nudged it for a couple of weeks it's not really a first time but it's not maintenance You're getting that middle price. So, note to self, that's made a really big difference. People don't want to change their appointments.
Speaker 2:I need to look at your menu. Yes you all can look at my menu but it's a great, it's it, that's over.
Speaker 1:I mean, I shoot, I've been doing this for 16 years and um anyway, um so, but that I. What I found was, you know, I want to reward the people whose backs now take me no time at all to do. Yeah, so I'll make that adjustment now, that guy let me. Let's talk about men and their loyalty, my male clients are my favorite.
Speaker 1:They come in. They do what you tell them. They do exactly what, like I said, the home care that they need, and they come in. Oh, four weeks. Yeah no problem, they're early for their appointments. Now you have lots of different kinds of men, so I'm sure this is like across the board, but at my shop they're like oh, I have to come every four weeks.
Speaker 2:All right, they just do as they're told yeah, yeah, I think I think, um, overall, yes, I think men are great clients. They, they, um they're there to get results, they are, there's no bullshit. Um, they come in, want to do it, they reschedule, they come back for the following month and they're loyal. That's an interesting thing for you to bring up, because I do feel that that's true. Um, the very few clients who aren't loyal are the clients who call last minute or you know. You know them from yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But overall I find that men are the best clients. They're the easiest to sugar because they just do as you tell them. They are happy to talk about anything else but what you're doing, so you can talk about, you know whatever, and they're just easy. And then what I love about is I can retail to them as well. Yeah, yeah, oh, oh. You want me to buy these three things because it's going to fix my ingrown problem. Ok, and they just do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and sometimes I do find there's a challenge of getting them to adhere to their own treatment regimen. Adhere to their own treatment regimen and so at home regimen, I should say their own at home protocols for their skincare.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I often have to find the way to make it as simple as possible and as effective as possible so that they can say, oh, I only need these three products or these two products and you wash this area with this, you dry off, you put this on, you moisturize over it, done. That's all you need to do. And once they have that down and they see how simple it is but I think that's true with all skincare across the board Once you see how simple it is to take good care of yourself. But in general, I think with men, most men, they want it to be simple. There's a certain part, I think, of the community that I work with that they love the complexity, they love the products, they love it, you know, and but other men are just like okay, great, just these two things. Terrific, as long as you keep it cut and dry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, is there any? What's next for the sugar daddy? What?
Speaker 2:is next. Yes, well, I'm teaching with love to sugar, which is really exciting, and I'll be offering perfection classes, male, male, we're calling it right now male Brazilian perfection, as we're working on it, but we're changing it Male anatomy perfection. Yeah, so that anybody who's learning to sugar can come to me to learn specifically about that.
Speaker 2:But we should also talk about expanding to other parts, other male parts, because it's so different from other things. So that that's the big thing and the Sugar Daddy as a business, that's the big thing and the sugar daddy as a business.
Speaker 1:We are right now talking about a possible LA office.
Speaker 2:This is news to me. This is my land. Listen, I just said this so far ahead of any real talks that we've had. It's just been mentioned among some people who want to do business with me. Don't know where that's going, but that's you know. Ultimately, my goal is to have sugar daddies all over the country, but we're also expanding into more aesthetic services that I love to do. We're going to be offering facials, offering hair growth treatments, we're going to be doing body scrubs and body treatments in addition to the shivering, and I'm currently training another person, so we will have four of us in the office.
Speaker 1:Very well, I need to meet him and make sure he lives up to my standards of happiness do I have to come out? To new york again you should um.
Speaker 2:you met him at ieECSC Sam Tall, thin guy, super sweet.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yeah, sam is acceptable. He may come Good. I will grant him sugar mama blessings. Just a little dot of sugar right in the middle of your head. Oh my gosh, you have to go to New York and go to sugar daddy, cause I love your stuff, I just do yeah, so that's you know. I love that. You are really saying okay, holistically, yes, we sugar, which is awesome, it's that, it's that service that brings these men in the door, right?
Speaker 2:Cause they want to be smooth.
Speaker 1:But what else can we offer men that they don't even realize they need? And then they get it and they're like, oh wow, I. I didn't know how much I like to have a facial or I didn't know what I needed to use because I don't want to ask. You know, there's a lot of gay men that love to make like every product they can put on their faces and bodies, like, give it to me, right? But there's a lot of men that are really timid about that. But if you can just say, hey, by the way, we order, you do these other things, what a great business build for all of you. Because they don't know what they need, they don't know what they're asking for, but you're going to offer them things that and it's about proper retail to them and you're going to offer them things that, again, that can just benefit their life and their happiness with their skin and their body and their image.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's because it's everything, because when you are caring for specific parts, your skin is a whole organ that covers your whole body. This is the one organ right, and what you're doing down there, what you're doing on your back. You should also be thinking about what's happening over here, because this is getting special care and this isn't. That's not good.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, and the ability for you to recognize that and not, you know, try to be like well, we have 17,. You know service providers? No, we're going to, you know, we're going to hone down the guys that we have and make sure that people feel serviced and they feel like they have the services and the products that they need, and let's make this perfect before we then go cookie cutter elsewhere, like it's really smart and to add something else to the other sugarists, sugaristas and sugarists who are listening that you want to be just giving the most excellent service.
Speaker 2:You can be all the time and taking the time to focus on detail, whether it's adding services that suit your business and making sure that's a complete little nugget that you can give to somebody. Or if you're just doing sugaring or hair removal, waxing or sugaring, you want to make sure that you're holding them in your care, because that's also what brings people back and that's not the motivation for it, right, but you do want people to feel that they've had a result, that they've gotten the result they want, so that when they meet you yeah, when they move out into the world, they're like, oh, I feel good, that was good, there's nothing else they need to do, they don't need to think about it again, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you're my person You're my person that takes care of those things. I got a guy.
Speaker 2:I got a guy.
Speaker 1:If I got a thing right here I got a guy, I've got some dry skin. Oh, I got a guy for that.
Speaker 2:And it's so wonderfully satisfying and it happens for everybody. That's a practitioner like us. When somebody says, oh, I heard about you from. Oh, I was at a party and people were talking about you know. When somebody says, oh, you're the sugar daddy, I'm so like taken aback. I was recently at a theater event and was standing with the director of the thing and a friend of his and we were talking and he said, well, what do you do for? And I said, well, I have a small aesthetics business. I, I'm a sugarist, I do sugaring hair removal. He said, wait, you're the sugar daddy, aren't you? And I was like that's crazy, I don't even know this person. Yes, yeah means the marketing's working. It's also that word of mouth.
Speaker 1:Right, get those people talking yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what we're gonna have to cut this because, yeah, because we could talk literally for hours and we're going to. We're going to keep doing this and if any of you are listening and you have questions for us, feel free to leave comments, because we would are happy to answer. We can do this again with another topic, which is great. Maybe we'll talk about histamine reactions or you know, like there's something to talk about.
Speaker 1:But this is what it's about is Armando and I have experienced such great success in our careers and really finding those things that work, and so this is why we bring it to you on the podcast is to ask the questions and to bring out so that we're all better estheticians and we're all your service providers, and so if you do have any questions, audience of Armando or myself, feel free to ask those questions, and if there are more private questions that you're a little more nervous about, because we are talking about naked parts and you don't know how to ask that, just DM us. It's fine, too, because we're happy to have that discussion and really it's about helping each other, because if we don't help each other in this industry, the industry doesn't rise, and that is what we're looking for is to do that together.
Speaker 1:So, mr Armando, thank you for our inaugural podcast session together. Sugar mama I love the sugar mama and sugar daddy session together.
Speaker 2:Sugar mama. I love it, cause there'll be many more I love the sugar mama and sugar daddy come together.
Speaker 1:We have come together. I love it. I love it. So audience again. If you have any questions, feel free to ask us. We are always here for you and, as always, Armando, and I hope that you have a beautifully sweet week.